Here is Part Three of the Thinking Shop’s special feature on

Anti-Education in Canada,

“Know Yer Nuts”!

And just to make it three in a row, the crew that is driving me nuts this time around is the third creation centre in Alberta.

The Creation Discovery Centre

The CDC is to be found in sleepy little Bow Island, on Highway 3 between Lethbridge and Medicine Hat. It is part of the Bow Island Community Bible Church.

I’ve never been to the CDC, but my friend Cameron has been (a few years ago), but I don’t recall him being all that impressed. I wonder why.

Whereas the Creation Truth Ministries (Know Yer Nuts #1) and Big Valley Creation Science Museum (Know Yer Nuts #2) emphasize dinosaurs, (pseudo)biology, and so forth, the CDC is a little more outer spacey in orientation although they don’t ignore dinosaurs.

The Apollo Capsule room at the Creation Discovery Centre. Pic from CreationWiki. Why #8? Because one of the astronauts talked about God on that mission. That proves that God made the universe (apparently).

According to the blurb on their website:

The Creation Discovery Centre is open for monthly events (see our calendar for dates and times) and tour bookings. See God’s creation through the eyes of Astronomy, Manned Spaceflight, and Dinosaurs! Book a tour at the Creation Discovery Centre for groups up to a maximum of 30 people; or book a creation speaker for your organization.

Linked from Creation Discovery Centre

Nice sign. I think the unnamed person isthe chief researcher. Like most creationists with a spacey focus she was probably once a “top NASA scientist”. How many “top” scientists does NASA have? Has anyone ever asked them? Do they have “bottom scientists”, or middle ones?

Also not ignored is Noah’s ark. Notice that the brontosauruses are scientifically to scale. They are YOUNG brontosauruses. Also notice that there are two light grey elephants and one dark grey one, or is it a mastadon or mammoth? Did Noah take two of every species of elephant kind on board? Did he take two of every kind of insect?

Creation Discovery Center

Now, who would the Creation Speaker be?

LARRY DYE THE CREATION GUY!

CreationWiki says:

The Creation Guy has written and produced several full length plays including Catastrophic Park, Apollo 8 and the Storm Chaser. Larry Dye the Creation Guy brings a unique blend of creativity and humour, using scripture as a foundation for each presentation.
Larry Dye is a member and former director of the Sunridge Observatory (Medicine Hat Astronomy Club) and has developed space camps for the Medicine Hat College summer programs.

According to the blurb on CDC’s website Larry attended North American Baptist Divinity School (Taylor Seminary). This is the same institution that gave Vance Nelson of Creation Truth Ministries (see Know Yer Nuts #1) a degree in something. Taylor Seminary is still in operation, but its accompanying college has recently folded. Larry also graduated from the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology although he doesn’t say in what.

Creation Discovery Centre introduces “Larry Dye the Creation Guy”. Larry is a graduate of Northern Alberta Institute of Technology and North American Baptist Divinity School (Taylor Seminary). With a strong emphasis on apologetics and creationism, Larry has spoken extensively to churches, schools, science clubs, organizations, camps, libraries, and ministerials. His very first dinosaur presentation was at the Royal Tyrrell Museum. Larry has 17 years of ministry experience as a youth and outreach pastor. In addition, he has received training from Shiloh Training Institute, YWAM, and the Citadel Theatre.

That’s right, he has spoken at the Royal Tyrrell Museum! That is the real history of life museum in Alberta, and is one of the best in the world. I posted some of my pics from my August 2008 visit here.

Larry at the Tyrrell, from an old website Matchlok.

I can’t find any description of what Larry said, how he said it, or how he ingratiated himself to the good folks there to let him have his say, or what they thought about what he said. Or whether he was ever invited back.

Maybe it went something like this:

Another old photo of Larry from Matchlok

Note the cool “I like to dress like I work for NASA even though I don’t really” jumpsuit with the astronautical shoulder patch. That means he KNOWS.

Larry, probably not at the Tyrrell. Is it the Big Valley Creation Science Museum? I seem to remember the overbite (not on Larry). See “Know Yer Nuts #2)

According to Creation Wiki, Larry likes to talk about (with added pictorial commentary by yours truly):

God and the Space Race

An out-of-this-world presentation on the history of the Space Race. Join Larry Dye the Creation Guy and characters such as Yuri the Cosmonaut, and Elvis, as they explain how God was glorified over man’s greatest adventure.

Great Dinosaur Mystery Solved

Ever wondered how dinosaurs fit in the Bible? This presentation unravels the mystery behind dinosaurs. Find out how scripture has answers to the most perplexing questions Palaeontologists have about Dinosaurs!

Video from Yoism

Big Bang or Big God

Did the universe come about by a Big Bang or Big God. Find out how comets and galaxies reveal a young universe. Introduce yourself to Albert Einstein as he confirms that the Bible was right about our Solar System and universe. See how the heavens declare the glory of God.

Since I don’t have a mess of photos from the place to show you, I thought I would have a look at one of CDC’s articles. Just to show how scientific the place is. The article is about flying things, more specifically, honking great flying reptiles, which, according to the author, should not be able to fly at all.

I will assume Larry Dye the Creation Guy is the author but the article does not say it specifically. Anyway, Dye is advertising his public speaking services at the bottom of the piece. Now, what would Larry know about reptilian flight?

Hell, a guy with an astronaut suit can’t be wrong about flying things, can he? Of course not, if he’s

LARRY DYE THE CREATION GUY!

Genesis answers huge flying reptile problem

Photo from Discovery Channel.

Basically, the problem is how the really big pterosaurs, the ones I’ve already discussed in Know Yer Nuts #2 that closely resembled ugly French giraffes, got their huge bodies off the ground without plummeting to the ground like unclever sheep.

Quite obviously, they were a heck of a lot bigger than your average albatross. Could such creatures generate enough power to fly? The problems “evolutionists” have in explaining the physics of giant ass reptilian giraffe flight are all explained by Dye by reference to Genesis.

Genesis 1:6-8 reveals that the original atmosphere on earth was different than it is today. It speaks of water not only being on the earth but above the atmosphere.

6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

This water canopy above the expanse or sky would be the hard ceiling which would cause the air pressure to be substantially greater. Scientists now believe that the air pressure during the time of the dinosaurs would have had to be about twice the levels of today. Why is this important?

Dye explains the importance by claiming that without the Earth’s air pressure being well above current levels, large dinosaurs could not breath (their lungs being too inefficient and their “long necks” being “too long to reach their lungs”) and that the big pterosaurs would have been unable to generate enough lift in to get airborne. This, he says is well known. But what about his “solution”?

They needed a heavier atmosphere to get enough air to lift them with their 30 to 40-foot wingspans. The system revealed in Genesis 1:6-8, would have provided the heavier atmospheric pressure necessary for the flight of these huge creatures. Evolutionists say we don’t know how these giant reptiles could have flown in our atmosphere. To the Creation scientist, this is not a problem. Before the water canopy came down at the flood of Noah’s day, it would have provided the air density needed for these huge creatures to fly.

Now, how the hell does this work? How could the water above the “expanse” exert pressure on the air without simply falling through it and falling as a freaking big rain storm unless the “expanse” was somehow a material hard enough to keep the water suspended but elastic enough to allow its weight to compress the air caught between it and the flat earth.  Dye ignores that but sees the water itself as the “hard ceiling”. How the fuck is water a “hard ceiling”, unless it was ice? If it was ice, then it might not exert any pressure at all on the atmosphere. Think of an igloo.Maybe it was a wobbly igloo, but that’s hardly the product of a perfect God.

But Dye is not a very good Bible guy, because the Bible doesn’t really call the water the “hard ceiling”. The ceiling is the “expanse” itself but that term really misses most of the nuances of the Hebrew word raqi’a used in Genesis 1, 6, 8.

This is not so much  a simple expanse, but a shell, in the words of other translations, a “firmament”. The one thing about firmaments that needs to be recognized here is that they are firm. Not squishy. Not wobbly. The word comes from a verb meaning to “beat out”, i.e., like a copper kettle. In biblical cosmology, that is the sky. Something solid, keeping the cosmic waters above it from reaching earth, unless His Yahwehness opens its “windows” (see Genesis 7:11).

Of course, Dye, being a space cadet, knows the world is not flat but more or less spherical. So, the biblical cosmology is wrong, unless one supposes that the firm firmament is also more or less spherical. But this is no solution either.

Think of Big Valley Creation Science Museum’s Argument from Submarines in which it is claimed that some deep sea shell fish have round shells like submarines to be able to withstand the water pressure.

Go here to launch one of your own.

The round shells allow the critters to have an internal gas pressure substantially lower than the outside water pressure. Just like a submarine. Since submarines are designed, so are the shelled critters. Its a rubbish argument, of course, but for a spherical earth the firmament must be like  a submarine hull, resisting pressure.

It is interesting the Dye prefers the translation that reads “expanse” even though it totally defeats his case. It might be just that Dye isn’t smart enough to notice this, but remember, he has a space suit. Dye has a bigger problem, however. If the sky is a solid firmament, where the hell is it now? We have gone beyond the atmosphere and found that the sun and moon, rather than being embedded in a solid firmament above the air, are higher still, with other heavenly bodies (see T-shirt ad above) even higher. He is caught between a rock and a firmament.

As far as how the big pterosaurs flew, we need a better explanation. But I bet if people looked, there would be one that doesn’t require ephemerally firm BS and a lot of water to make things fly. For the interested, try this as a basic place to start:

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vertebrates/flight/pter.html

This is the alternative:

Now, before anyone gives up on Bow Island as a whole, I should call your attention to the fact that this little wee town has a bit of reputation in Alberta for having a great venue for the Blues, and it hosts some great acts. I haven’t been yet (I’m looking for a designated driver), but hopefully that little shortcoming in my social life will be filled soon. Go to “Blues at the Bow“.